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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 01:50 pm |
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Fritz
Prospect
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 01:37 pm |
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Dave wrote: Fritz wrote:
The issue was gas prices, Bush is responsible. There is sufficient evidence if you want to see it. You don't want to see it.
Again, if any other Republican or Democrat had been President fuel prices would be lower BECAUSE WE WOULD NOT BE IN IRAQ.
It does make a big difference who is in the White House otherwise why vote at all?
Great...
Another irrational emotional outburst... Whatever you say Dave. You obviously know best.
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 01:19 pm |
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Fritz wrote:
The issue was gas prices, Bush is responsible. There is sufficient evidence if you want to see it. You don't want to see it.
Again, if any other Republican or Democrat had been President fuel prices would be lower BECAUSE WE WOULD NOT BE IN IRAQ.
It does make a big difference who is in the White House otherwise why vote at all?
Great...
Another irrational emotional outburst...
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Fritz
Prospect
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 01:10 pm |
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The issue was gas prices, Bush is responsible. There is sufficient evidence if you want to see it. You don't want to see it.
Again, if any other Republican or Democrat had been President fuel prices would be lower BECAUSE WE WOULD NOT BE IN IRAQ.
It does make a big difference who is in the White House otherwise why vote at all?
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 11:21 am |
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Ok, lets see...
-Both Democrats and Republicans have ignored acts of war on the United States for decades. At least as far back as 1979.
-Both Democrats and Republicans have treated these acts of war as "Crimes" for decades.
All the while the Middle-East has continued to pull these acts of aggression. When do you finally say "Enough"?
It goes back to Jimmie Carter allowing our Embassy to be over-run by Iranian students. (1979 or did that actually start in 1978? 444 days before Regan was in office.)
There has been a lot of American blood spilled in the Middle-East since that time. How quickly we forget the facts when it suits our purposes. No one is ever going to claim Bush is the best & brightest President we've ever had.
But, the facts are, there is so much more to the price of oil than the Middle-East, you'd have to be a complete idiot not to recognize it. Has the Middle-East had an impact? Yeah, it has. It has been a contributor on that we might agree. But, is it solely responsible? Nope.
Factors you're ignoring when it comes to placing blame -
-The devaluation of the dollar.
-Competing in the world oil markets with others that are either subsidized or government owned oil companies on the price of oil futures.
-Democrats that have blocked any attempt to access oil fields in territories within and off-shore of the United States.
-Democrats that have blocked any attempt to build new refineries in the United States.
-Democrats that have blocked any attempt to build new Nuclear Power Plants in the United States.
-The war in Iraq
An overwhelming majority of the Senate and Congress approved of going to war. It didn't matter which side of the isle, they approved it. Without their approval, I doubt it would've happened the way it did. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the current administration wouldn't have figured out a way to make it happen. I don't doubt that. But, to let any of those that approved it off the hook is unreasonable.
But, you continue to put all the blame on Bush. I personally find this completely ignorant. Too many other things have been proven to be involved. Yet, you're still pointing your finger at a single person.
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Fritz
Prospect
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 09:20 pm |
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Dave wrote: Fritz wrote:
I am being facetious! I never came close to that kind of income when I owned a factory and had 40 employees.
The point is that the top 1% are getting wealthier and wealthier and pay less and less taxes. The rest of us are seeing our dollars shrinking.
We have been sold out, that is hard to deny.
That we can agree on. However, this thread has taken more twists and turns than a mountain road.
We've been sold out by our "Government", all of 'em. Democrat and Republican, Liberal and Conservative, alike.
But, you sit there and bitch about Bush (no one else). It's a much bigger issue than just him.
You cannot deny that the war in Iraq has made oil prices rise. You should also know by now that Bush was ready to invade Iraq before 9/11. Congress authorized the President to move on Iraq when he felt justified, this is where the congress screwed up. the few that voted againt it were both conservative and liberal, Democrat and Republican. Had anyone else been president, Democrat or Republican, we would not be in Iraq and prices at the pump would be a lot lower than they are now.
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 06:57 pm |
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weasle wrote:
LOL jeff , doubt if we,ll ever see it below 3 $ a gallon. I think you're right Weasle...
Actually, I think that it bein' under $4.00 a gallon is only temporary...
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weasle
Supporter
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 06:45 pm |
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| LOL jeff , doubt if we,ll ever see it below 3 $ a gallon.
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jeffy ole boy
Supporter
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 06:30 pm |
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weasle wrote: hey the must have heard you guys bitchin , gas went down .02 a gallon over the weekend .  3.97$ for 87 octain. .02 a gallon drop-- now a $2.00 drop would be grounds for a celebration... We'll never see $1.97 again I bet?
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weasle
Supporter
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 06:09 pm |
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| hey the must have heard you guys bitchin , gas went down .02 a gallon over the weekend . 3.97$ for 87 octain. Last edited on Tue May 27th, 2008 06:10 pm by weasle |
Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 05:51 pm |
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Fritz wrote:
I am being facetious! I never came close to that kind of income when I owned a factory and had 40 employees.
The point is that the top 1% are getting wealthier and wealthier and pay less and less taxes. The rest of us are seeing our dollars shrinking.
We have been sold out, that is hard to deny.
That we can agree on. However, this thread has taken more twists and turns than a mountain road.
We've been sold out by our "Government", all of 'em. Democrat and Republican, Liberal and Conservative, alike.
But, you sit there and bitch about Bush (no one else). It's a much bigger issue than just him.
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Fritz
Prospect
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 05:30 pm |
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I am being facetious! I never came close to that kind of income when I owned a factory and had 40 employees.
The point is that the top 1% are getting wealthier and wealthier and pay less and less taxes. The rest of us are seeing our dollars shrinking.
We have been sold out, that is hard to deny.
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 04:06 pm |
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$300K is not rich? Are you kidding me? $300K a year is "Rich" in my neighborhood.
I'd be willing to bet that California has to be one of the highest cost of living areas in the country. I don't think I know a single person making in excess of $300k (Net or Gross)
Net worth? I know a few that exceed that number in "Net Worth". Hell, I think I exceed that number in "Net Worth". But, only because of the equity I've got in my house. It sure ain't from my investment or high-paying job.
But, Annual Income? No one I know. I make decent money. But, nothing near that.
Like Marc, I must be a "Fuckin Peasant"
The chart you posted (Fritz) came from a website that claim to be "Bipartisan". Despite its claim, it has serious list to the port side. Might try lookin' for a site with a neutral point of view...
This was on MSNBC this morning. (Another site that has a decidedly "list to the port side") About half-way through the article...
Oil drops below $130 on demand concerns
Analyst hints that we may have 1st drop in gas consumption in 17 years
“I think that we’re going to see that that is the peak or very close to it,” said Michael Lynch, president of Strategic Energy & Economic Research Inc. in Winchester, Mass.
Lynch thinks energy investors are selling on recent data showing that Americans are driving less due to high prices — including weekly Energy Department reports that demand for gasoline is falling, a Federal Highway Administration report showing Americans drove fewer miles in March and a AAA survey released before Memorial Day predicting that fewer people would hit the road over the long weekend.
And a few paragraphs later...
Oil prices were also pressured Tuesday by the dollar, which gained ground against the euro. Investors who buy commodities such as oil as a hedge against inflation when the dollar falls tend to sell when the greenback strengthens. Also, a rising dollar makes oil more expensive to investors overseas.
Investors shrugged off a number of events that could have sent oil prices higher, including reports that crude oil production in Mexico fell by 13 percent in April compared to the previous year, the temporary shutdown of a North Sea oil platform and the latest in a spate of oil-pipeline bombings in Nigeria.
In other Nymex trading Tuesday, June gasoline futures fell 3.35 cents to $3.3625 a gallon, and June heating oil futures rose 1.29 cents to $3.8785 a gallon. June natural gas futures rose 6.3 cents to $11.92 per 1,000 cubic feet .
Hmmm... Not a single mention of any politician in the whole article...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/
We now return you to the "gas prices" thread...
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Fritz
Prospect
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:29 am |
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empty wrote: I learned a long time ago to 'not talk politics or religion in a bar or over the internet'. Your intended goal is to change someone else's viewpoint, but the outcome will always be to piss them off.
Empty,
I don't want anyone to take my word for anything. I just cannot let things go by that have another perspective.
Everyone should examine their own paradigms once in a while.
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empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1634 |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 11:38 pm |
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| I learned a long time ago to 'not talk politics or religion in a bar or over the internet'. Your intended goal is to change someone else's viewpoint, but the outcome will always be to piss them off.
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Randy in Pensacola
Supporter
| Joined: | Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 916 |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 10:36 pm |
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the preacher wrote: Hey:
Gas prices went down 9 cents last night. Guess Bush and all his oil buddy cronies got rich enough on us poor folks who pay all the taxes, huh?
ROFLMBO
RSDF LMAO
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the preacher
Supporter
| Joined: | Wed Oct 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 240 |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 10:34 pm |
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Hey:
Gas prices went down 9 cents last night. Guess Bush and all his oil buddy cronies got rich enough on us poor folks who pay all the taxes, huh?
ROFLMBO
RSDF
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Fritz
Prospect
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 09:00 pm |
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Randy in Pensacola wrote: Fritz wrote:
$300,000 a year is not rich anymore! the rich people make more than 7 digits and they are the ones that have gotten the largest tax cuts. Bush proposed these tax cuts, his Republican led congress passed them. The tail does indeed wag the dog in this case.
I got news for you. All the rich people I know (and its about 8 who are worth over 15-30 million) they pay less taxes than I do and its not because they are rich, its because they have good accountants that make sure they don't pay taxes and 99% of the time its not the individual who is rich, its his business that has all the money. So according to you, These people should pay more taxes because they are rich? Well, I hope my boss don't have to pay more because he might not be able to afford to pay me then.... You might find this hard to believe...But poor people don't open business that EMPLOY allot of people. They give tax breaks to people that have money to open businesses so other people can have a job and don't have to rely on the government to support us.
Sorry Randy,
The FACT is they pay less tax, isn't it? They pay the lobbyists that help write the tax code so they, in the end, pay less tax. The arguement that the job market will shrink because of tax code is a red herring! I had a business, a manufacturing business and it was owned by a corporation that I owned. I employed up to 45 people too, so I do know a bit about this. My corporation paid little tax, I paid tax on my profit from dividends from the corporation.
The taxes I paid did not bother me a bit! What bothered me was the fact that MY GOVERNMENT WAS SELLING MY INDUSTRY TO CHINA! Taxes were not keeping me from making more jobs or paying higher wages, imports did that. Chesp imports, that the very wealthy Americans who did not care about manufacturing jobs here, put me out of business.
Trade policy and the falling dollar are ruining our economy annd the very wealthy could care less! They profit from it! Greed rules, this is why Halliburton moved it's main offices out of the USA.
Remember, your boss pays tax on his profit, not on your wages, so if he gives you a raise he pays less tax!
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marc
Supporter
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 08:40 pm |
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Fritz wrote: $300,000 a year is not rich anymore! It is by my standards...I must be a Fuckin Peasant...
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Randy in Pensacola
Supporter
| Joined: | Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 916 |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 08:28 pm |
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Fritz wrote:
$300,000 a year is not rich anymore! the rich people make more than 7 digits and they are the ones that have gotten the largest tax cuts. Bush proposed these tax cuts, his Republican led congress passed them. The tail does indeed wag the dog in this case.
I got news for you. All the rich people I know (and its about 8 who are worth over 15-30 million) they pay less taxes than I do and its not because they are rich, its because they have good accountants that make sure they don't pay taxes and 99% of the time its not the individual who is rich, its his business that has all the money. So according to you, These people should pay more taxes because they are rich? Well, I hope my boss don't have to pay more because he might not be able to afford to pay me then.... You might find this hard to believe...But poor people don't open business that EMPLOY allot of people. They give tax breaks to people that have money to open businesses so other people can have a job and don't have to rely on the government to support us.
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