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weasle
Supporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 10:43 pm |
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| boys yer right the gov lied to the people about that . i was their . what really happened was our destroyer escort, i was aboard the uss. ticonderoga, got a bunch of fu---ed up radar readings, and let loose with their 5 in guns. didnt kill nothing but a bunch of fish.
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Randy in Pensacola
Supporter
| Joined: | Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 935 |
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 09:58 pm |
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Johnson lied Johnson lied
Dave wrote:
Democrats have been pretty quiet about this. I haven't read anything from them. As much noise as Kerry and the gang have been making over Iraq, you'd think that the Republicans would shove up their asses.
But, even the Republicans have been pretty quiet...
US skewed evidence of 1964 Tonkin attack-document
02 Dec 2005 18:47:53 GMT
Source: Reuters
WASHINGTON, Dec 2 (Reuters) - U.S. intelligence officials in 1964 skewed evidence of an attack on two U.S. destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin to support claims of communist aggression that led to a massive escalation of the Vietnam War, according to a newly declassified government document.
An article by a National Security Agency historian, released by the NSA this week along with intelligence reports and other related documents, said officials at the spy agency withheld nearly 90 percent of intelligence on the Aug. 4, 1964, incident to back allegations of a North Vietnamese attack.
"It is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened. It is that no attack happened that night," NSA historian Robert Hanyok wrote.
Hanyok's article, which appeared in a classified NSA publication in 2001, was based on a review of newly discovered signals intelligence documents from 41 years ago.
The Gulf of Tonkin incident gave President Lyndon Johnson carte blanche for a huge U.S. military buildup in Southeast Asia that led to the deaths of more than 58,000 U.S. soldiers and over 2 million Vietnamese civilians.
The New York Times reported Friday that some intelligence officials believe the NSA delayed the release of the Hanyok article to avoid comparisons between skewed Vietnam intelligence and flawed prewar intelligence on Iraq.
But NSA spokesman Don Weber said there was no delay. The agency only waited so it could also make public the raw material Hanyok used in composing his history, he said.
Officials at NSA, the spy agency that monitors transmission signals, provided the Johnson administration only with signals intelligence that supported claims of an attack. The reports were also flawed by severe analytic errors and contained unexplained translation changes, the article said.
In fact, Johnson's main proof that the Aug. 4 attack occurred proved to be a "conjunction of two unrelated messages into one translation," the article stated.
"Information was presented in such a manner as to preclude responsible decisionmakers in the Johnson administration from having the complete and objective narrative," said the article, which was among hundreds of documents on the Gulf of Tonkin released by the NSA.
"The conclusion that would have been drawn from a review of all ... evidence would have been that the North Vietnamese not only did not attack, but were uncertain as to the location of the (U.S.) ships."
Historians have long suspected that government reports of the 1964 attack were fabricated. Robert McNamara, Johnson's defense secretary, said during a visit to Vietnam a decade ago that he had come to believe the attack did not occur.
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 09:33 pm |
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Democrats have been pretty quiet about this. I haven't read anything from them. As much noise as Kerry and the gang have been making over Iraq, you'd think that the Republicans would shove up their asses.
But, even the Republicans have been pretty quiet...
US skewed evidence of 1964 Tonkin attack-document
02 Dec 2005 18:47:53 GMT
Source: Reuters
WASHINGTON, Dec 2 (Reuters) - U.S. intelligence officials in 1964 skewed evidence of an attack on two U.S. destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin to support claims of communist aggression that led to a massive escalation of the Vietnam War, according to a newly declassified government document.
An article by a National Security Agency historian, released by the NSA this week along with intelligence reports and other related documents, said officials at the spy agency withheld nearly 90 percent of intelligence on the Aug. 4, 1964, incident to back allegations of a North Vietnamese attack.
"It is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened. It is that no attack happened that night," NSA historian Robert Hanyok wrote.
Hanyok's article, which appeared in a classified NSA publication in 2001, was based on a review of newly discovered signals intelligence documents from 41 years ago.
The Gulf of Tonkin incident gave President Lyndon Johnson carte blanche for a huge U.S. military buildup in Southeast Asia that led to the deaths of more than 58,000 U.S. soldiers and over 2 million Vietnamese civilians.
The New York Times reported Friday that some intelligence officials believe the NSA delayed the release of the Hanyok article to avoid comparisons between skewed Vietnam intelligence and flawed prewar intelligence on Iraq.
But NSA spokesman Don Weber said there was no delay. The agency only waited so it could also make public the raw material Hanyok used in composing his history, he said.
Officials at NSA, the spy agency that monitors transmission signals, provided the Johnson administration only with signals intelligence that supported claims of an attack. The reports were also flawed by severe analytic errors and contained unexplained translation changes, the article said.
In fact, Johnson's main proof that the Aug. 4 attack occurred proved to be a "conjunction of two unrelated messages into one translation," the article stated.
"Information was presented in such a manner as to preclude responsible decisionmakers in the Johnson administration from having the complete and objective narrative," said the article, which was among hundreds of documents on the Gulf of Tonkin released by the NSA.
"The conclusion that would have been drawn from a review of all ... evidence would have been that the North Vietnamese not only did not attack, but were uncertain as to the location of the (U.S.) ships."
Historians have long suspected that government reports of the 1964 attack were fabricated. Robert McNamara, Johnson's defense secretary, said during a visit to Vietnam a decade ago that he had come to believe the attack did not occur.
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Mikey
Supporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 08:26 pm |
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empty wrote:
Kinda makes you wonder what the hell those other countries are doing with their serial killers..... Saving them up to collect the whole set? Be the first one on your block??
I know....they give em all one way ticket to the USA...
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empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1834 |
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 08:18 pm |
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marc wrote: What the hell is with these people....This bastard deserved to die...Should have killed him back in 88....Think of all the $$ that we could have saved...What a waste and who gives a shit about Singapore and Saudi Arabia???
US executions milestone spurs fresh debate
......
"It is a scandal that the death penalty still exists in a civilized country like the United States of America," said Petra Herrmann, chairwoman of the German group Alive e.V.
"How can a citizen realize that murder is wrong if the state is allowed to murder its own citizens?" she said.
Akiko Takada, of Japan's anti-capital punishment group Forum 90, said that despite frequent U.S. use of the death penalty "crime there shows no signs of diminishing, so ultimately the death of these people has no effect."
"This is one small step for humankind -- backwards," American campaigner Clive Stafford Smith told Reuters in London. "The death penalty makes us all far more barbaric."
...
Kinda makes you wonder what the hell those other countries are doing with their serial killers..... Saving them up to collect the whole set? Be the first one on your block??
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marc
Supporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 07:14 pm |
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| Give me a fricking break...Don't these people have more important things to do that could help the school system?????... Get a life...He is 6 years old....
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 06:45 pm |
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This is so stupid...
6-Year-Old Faces Expulsion For Touching Classmate's Rear
COLERAIN TOWNSHIP, Ohio -- A 6-year-old boy was facing expulsion for touching a classmate's rear end, and his mother said she thinks the school district is going too far, WLWT-TV in Cincinnati reported.
Yolanda Kirk said she's not disputing Northwest Local School District's right to discipline students.
"Don't get me wrong -- it's not right for any child to physically touch another child," she said. "I don't condone it."
A letter from the school district claims that her son, Blake, engaged in sexual acts, displayed excessive affection, engaged in inappropriate touching and used obscene gestures. But Kirk said her son's potential expulsion is excessive.
"He's 6 -- he just came out of kindergarten," she said.
Kirk claims Blake was forced to sign a paper without a parent's consent admitting he was wrong, and then a school security guard purposefully embarrassed him.
"He took him to classroom and told my son's peers what he'd done, and said, 'Don't you ever touch anyone's private areas. Are there any questions?'" Kirk said. "You don't have to embarrass a child like that."
She said after the first time Blake touched a girl's bottom, he was suspended. But she said the second time wasn't intentional.
"He accidentally touched the little girl's bottom -- he told me accidentally -- and he apologized to the little girl," Kirk said.
http://www.nbc4.tv/education/5448231/detail.html
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Randy in Pensacola
Supporter
| Joined: | Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 935 |
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 06:29 pm |
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we put him on death row cause he was such an upstanding member of soceity........
Just like that guy in California that is the founder of the crips.........
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marc
Supporter
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Posted: Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 06:24 pm |
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What the hell is with these people....This bastard deserved to die...Should have killed him back in 88....Think of all the $$ that we could have saved...What a waste and who gives a shit about Singapore and Saudi Arabia???
US executions milestone spurs fresh debate
By Andy Sullivan
Double murderer Kenneth Lee Boyd became the 1,000th prisoner executed in the United States since the reinstatement of capital punishment when he was put to death by lethal injection on Friday.
The execution drew global attention because of its symbolism since the U.S. Supreme Court allowed the death penalty to be brought back in 1976 after a nine-year unofficial moratorium.
It helped spur renewed debate over U.S. capital punishment, and came on a day that executions in Singapore and Saudi Arabia also sparked international concerns.
"God bless everybody in here," Boyd said in his last words to witnesses from the death chamber at Central Prison in North Carolina's state capital, Raleigh.
Boyd, who was 57, was a Vietnam War veteran with a history of alcohol abuse. He was executed for killing his wife and father-in-law in 1988, in front of two of his children.
"This 1,000th execution is a milestone, a milestone we should all be ashamed of," his lawyer Thomas Maher said.
With polls showing that a declining majority of the American public backs the death penalty, the White House reiterated U.S. President George W. Bush's support.
"The president strongly supports the death penalty because he believes ultimately it helps save innocent lives," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.
Bush is a former governor of Texas, which has accounted for 355 of the 1,000 executions -- more than three times as many as any other state.
Boyd was wheeled into the death chamber, strapped to a gurney and injected with a fatal mix of three drugs.
He seemed "sort of resigned," said witness Elyse Ashburn.
Sheriff Sam Page of Rockingham County, which prosecuted Boyd, defended the execution. "Tonight justice has been served," he said, and he urged people to pray for the murder victims. Two of the victims' relatives witnessed the execution but did not speak after.
About 100 death-penalty opponents gathered on a sidewalk outside the prison. They held candles and read the names of the other 999 convicts who have been put to death.
DETAINED PROTESTERS
About 17 protesters were detained and charged with trespassing after stepping onto prison property, police said. Witnesses said many had been on their knees in prayer.
World reaction to Boyd's death was swift.
"It is a scandal that the death penalty still exists in a civilized country like the United States of America," said Petra Herrmann, chairwoman of the German group Alive e.V.
"How can a citizen realize that murder is wrong if the state is allowed to murder its own citizens?" she said.
Akiko Takada, of Japan's anti-capital punishment group Forum 90, said that despite frequent U.S. use of the death penalty "crime there shows no signs of diminishing, so ultimately the death of these people has no effect."
"This is one small step for humankind -- backwards," American campaigner Clive Stafford Smith told Reuters in London. "The death penalty makes us all far more barbaric."
Bush believed it was important that the death penalty be administered "fairly and swiftly and surely" with expanded DNA testing to make sure convictions were secure, McClellan said.
FALLING SUPPORT
Thirty-eight of the 50 U.S. states and the federal government permit capital punishment, and only China, Iran and Vietnam held more executions in 2004 than the United States, according to rights group Amnesty International.
A Gallup Poll in October showed 64 percent of Americans favored the death penalty -- the lowest level in 27 years and down from a high of 80 percent in 1994. Improved DNA testing that has led to several criminal convictions being overturned has fueled doubts about the fairness of capital punishment.
Singapore, with the world's highest execution rate relative to population, also carried out a death penalty on Friday, with the hanging of Australian drugs trafficker Nguyen Tuong Van despite Australian government pleas for clemency.
In Saudi Arabia, murderer Ahmad al-Shaater became at least the 78th person put to death this year in the conservative kingdom.
South Carolina was scheduled to execute another American, Shawn Paul Humphries, by lethal injection at 6 p.m. (2300 GMT) on Friday for the killing of a convenience store owner.
Last edited on Fri Dec 2nd, 2005 06:28 pm by marc |
empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1834 |
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 10:03 pm |
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weasle wrote: mike y , if they do pass the gun permit law in wisconsin , im sure as in ohio they will have a data base of somekind. here is the kicker on what the opponentes did in ohio. they gave buisness the right to not allow anyone carrying a gun intotheir establishment. so now all the gas stations , dept stores , ect have these neat little signs that say no firearms permitted on our premises. so really you can only protect yourself legally if your in your vehicle or walking down the street.
States that have 'Carry Permits', also have rules for the signs. If you have been through the training and classes, you just automatically recognize the signs and it becomes second nature. In the back of your mind you think "Yup there's another Bozo that thinks only the outlaws should have guns". Every once in a while, around here you will see a sign that welcomes permitted carriers, it sort of gives the robbers something else to think about.
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 09:26 pm |
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Former Gorilla Handlers Settle Lawsuit in Bosom-Baring Case
WOODSIDE, Calif. (AP) 12.01.05, 10:15a -- Two former caretakers who refused to bare their breasts to the 300-pound, sign-language-speaking gorilla named Koko have settled a lawsuit against the Gorilla Foundation.
Nancy Alperin and Kendra Keller claimed they were fired after they refused to expose their bosoms to the primate, and after reporting sanitary problems at Koko's home in Woodside, an upscale town south of San Francisco.
The pair claimed they were threatened that if they ``did not indulge Koko's nipple fetish, their employment with the Gorilla Foundation would suffer,'' the lawsuit alleged. (Just doesn't seem right, I can't get anyone here at work to indulge my nipple fetish. But no one's been fired for it, not even threatened. Except me...LOL)
Alperin and Keller claimed that Francine ``Penny'' Patterson, the gorilla's longtime caretaker and president of the Gorilla Foundation, pressured them to expose their breasts as a way to bond with the 33-year-old female simian.
``On one such occasion,'' the lawsuit said, ``Patterson said, 'Koko, you see my nipples all the time. You are probably bored with my nipples. You need to see new nipples.'' (I'd like to see some new nipples, hell even some old nipples. As long as their attached to a female...LOL)
The plaintiffs, both in their mid-40s, never undressed, said their attorney, Stephen Sommers. The foundation has denied the allegations.
Lawyers for both sides refused to disclose terms of the settlement.
A second similar lawsuit filed by another employee is pending.
The Gorilla Foundation was founded in 1976 to promote the preservation and study of gorillas. It's best known for Koko, who has mastered a vocabulary of more than 1,000 signs. Last edited on Thu Dec 1st, 2005 09:27 pm by Dave |
Mikey
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 08:19 pm |
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weasle wrote: mike y , if they do pass the gun permit law in wisconsin , im sure as in ohio they will have a data base of somekind. here is the kicker on what the opponentes did in ohio. they gave buisness the right to not allow anyone carrying a gun intotheir establishment. so now all the gas stations , dept stores , ect have these neat little signs that say no firearms permitted on our premises. so really you can only protect yourself legally if your in your vehicle or walking down the street. Thats fine by me....just means I will have to get to the truck faster...
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 08:13 pm |
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When I was in Missouri in May or June of 2004, I stopped at a gas station in O' Fallon (one of the suburbs, west of St Louis) There was a sign out front that said "No Firearms Permitted in Store"...
I just figured there was a bunch of gun-totin' Rednecks in the area...LOL
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weasle
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 07:47 pm |
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| mike y , if they do pass the gun permit law in wisconsin , im sure as in ohio they will have a data base of somekind. here is the kicker on what the opponentes did in ohio. they gave buisness the right to not allow anyone carrying a gun intotheir establishment. so now all the gas stations , dept stores , ect have these neat little signs that say no firearms permitted on our premises. so really you can only protect yourself legally if your in your vehicle or walking down the street.
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Randy in Pensacola
Supporter
| Joined: | Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 935 |
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 07:39 pm |
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you call him LUMP...........
http://joecartoon.atomfilms.com/pages/lump/
Mikey wrote:
Dave wrote: Talk about a drag...
Q - What do you name a dog with no legs?
A - Doesn't matter, it can't come to you anyway...
You name it Cigarette
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Mikey
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 07:15 pm |
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Dave wrote: Talk about a drag...
Q - What do you name a dog with no legs?
A - Doesn't matter, it can't come to you anyway...
Litter Of Legless Puppies Born
HOLLISTER, Calif. -- Animal control officers in California are a little worried after they received two litters of puppies in the last couple of weeks that show signs of what they consider inbreeding.
Images
Some of the puppies were born with no front legs.
But one little pup doesn't seem to mind at all. She was seen playing with her mom like any other healthy, happy puppy.
With a tail that was constantly wagging, the happy little camper chased her momma and even leaped across the cage onto her momma.
This story has a very happy ending for all the puppies involved. They have all been adopted.
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/5444714/detail.html
You name it Cigarette
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Dave
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 07:13 pm |
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Talk about a drag...
Q - What do you name a dog with no legs?
A - Doesn't matter, it can't come to you anyway...
Litter Of Legless Puppies Born
HOLLISTER, Calif. -- Animal control officers in California are a little worried after they received two litters of puppies in the last couple of weeks that show signs of what they consider inbreeding.
Images
Some of the puppies were born with no front legs.
But one little pup doesn't seem to mind at all. She was seen playing with her mom like any other healthy, happy puppy.
With a tail that was constantly wagging, the happy little camper chased her momma and even leaped across the cage onto her momma.
This story has a very happy ending for all the puppies involved. They have all been adopted.
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/5444714/detail.html
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Mikey
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 06:50 pm |
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empty wrote: I don't think there is a way to do this without having some sort of database to keep track of those that have passed the extreme background checks and training required to be trusted enough to legally carry a loaded firearm. I know that when law enforcement has information we automatically have a tendency to assume they are going to abuse it. The way I look at it, the permit is an automatic background check. If you have one, they already know what you have been through. Agreed..I suppose it is the price we pay for being law-abiding citizens...Now if they could only get criminals to get into the data base...LOL
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empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1834 |
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 06:38 pm |
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| I don't think there is a way to do this without having some sort of database to keep track of those that have passed the extreme background checks and training required to be trusted enough to legally carry a loaded firearm. I know that when law enforcement has information we automatically have a tendency to assume they are going to abuse it. The way I look at it, the permit is an automatic background check. If you have one, they already know what you have been through.
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Mikey
Supporter
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 06:27 pm |
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| I have no problem at all with LEO's being able to determine if I am carrying or not...I would rather have safety on my side in terms of an unwanted confrontation...I think however..that being required to Disclose upon being pulled over is a better option than having my name in a data base that may in some point in time..be used to confiscate my weapon when the state decides that they want to enact some sort of totalitarian law against my particular choice of sidearm..The governor of this state will do his upmost at vetoing passage of the law anyhow..but the lawmakers say they have enuf votes to overide...We are keeping our fingers crossed that it makes its way into law this time around...JMHO
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